We will explore the impact of the dissolution of boundaries on learning and look at possible structures for learning institutions that create less barriers to cross-boundary learning.
Group discussion > Getting to know the boundaries to schooling

Getting to know the boundaries to schooling

Alan McCluskey
370 days ago

 

One could argue that, despite its dedication to learning, the boundaries that make up schooling define it far more than any learning that goes on there. Just look at schooling in terms of the units that structure it: the class, the year, the stream, the level, the teacher, the classroom, the school, the district, the local authority, the period, the school day, the school year, the subject or discipline, the curriculum, the examining authority, the marking system, ... 


To what extent are the boundaries to schooling necessary to learning and what impact do they have on it?


Note that this discussion is open and public but if you wish to contribute you will need to register with L4D (see top bar menu) and then join the group by clicking Join group in the menu to the left.

Alan McCluskey
367 days ago

My hypothesis is that many of the structural elements that go to make up schooling, as listed above, in fact are not necessary to learning but have become necessary to schooling. Schooling is often confused with learning. Schooling could be defined as a complex activity related to the organising of learning within dedicated institutions that requires adhesion both to the constraints of an institutional setting and to a set of beliefs about the nature of learning. It also involves taking part in a number of ritualised activities. Learning, in comparison, is an activity that can take place anywhere in which the individual or a group seeks to build new knowledge or new ways of working, where that newness is with respect to the person or group developing it.

Alan McCluskey
366 days ago

The new Forrester report about the Post PC Era is interesting for our discussion here. See The future of education in a post PC era

Alan McCluskey
366 days ago

The nature of some ICT tools can be a solid boundary to learning, reinforcing existing boundaries by incorporating them, hard wired, in their structure. The development of the Personal Learning Environment (PLE) is interesting in this respect. Some see it as a personalised extension to existing institutional structures (classes, tests, control, teacher-centred, dictated content,...). Other see it as a much freer support for learner-driven learning (where help and guidance, for example, come from recommendation systems rather than set reading lists and subject-based, curriculum driven content). 

Here are some links:

Alan McCluskey
365 days ago

In another discussion group here run by Franco Furger, it has been question of the Kahn Academy (see the TED video) and the use of video to teach. Without necessarily condoning the experience, which I believe raises a lot of questions, one quote struck with respect to our discussion here about boundaries (between school and home). Talking about the use of video clips Salman Kahn says (approximately): "... the lectures are done as homework (the video clips) and what the students did for homework they now do in class." As a result there is much more interaction in class, he says.

Alan McCluskey
362 days ago


What could we mean by boundaries when talking about education? 


Let me give an example: subjects (or disciplines). School life is heavily structured in terms of subjects: Maths, English, French, Geography, ... These convenient divisions help make sense of the mass of knowledge available. They contribute to diminishing the apparent complexity of the world in line with the philosophy of schooling that requires that the world be simplified if learners are to grasp it. They make it easier to manage learning by dividing it up into blocks that can be slotted into the school day. They also structure evaluation which is carried out on a subject basis. They echo divisions found in universities and in teacher training colleges where teachers learn their future work. The role and nature of teachers in secondary school is defined in terms of these subjects.

But to what extent do these divisions hinder learning? First of all, by seeking to simplify that which is complex they do not prepare learners to handle the complexity of the world round them. Secondly, however convenient and reassuring these divisions may be, they skew our understanding of the world which, in many cases, cannot be satisfactorily understood from a "subject-based" perspective. They contribute to isolate learning from the world around it because everyday life cannot be limited to "subjects". And as such make subsequent "lifelong" learning much more difficult. They may well also limit innovation and creativity by placing artificial limits on the way things can be explored and thought out.

Alan McCluskey
361 days ago

Denis Gillet of the EPFL pointed out a very interesting concept: seamless learning environments. Here's one definition from the document cited below: "Seamless learning environment bridges private and public learning spaces where learning happens as both individual and collective efforts and across different contexts (such as in-school versus after-school, formal versus informal)." (Looi et al. 2010 p.156)

http://oa.stellarnet.eu/corner/start-0_-2011-05-04_read-6149

Raymond Morel
359 days ago

J’ai de la peine à démarrer dans cette discussion, aussi je vais essayer de reformuler ma compréhension de « Learning in dissolving boundaries » :

  • Est-ce seulement une discussion sur la perte de leadership de l’école sur les autres partenaires de l’apprentissage ? si oui quels sont-ils ? qu’apportent-ils de plus ?
  • Est-ce d’imaginer une ouverture de l’école sur la société ?
  • Est-ce la prise de conscience que les limites d’antan entre travail, loisirs et vie privée deviennent toujours plus floues, plus ténues et que les temps bien marqués d’autrefois s’intersèquent et se mélangent ? au profit de qui ? de quoi ?
  • Est-ce le fait qu’il y a des apprentissages formels et d’autres plus informels (cf. le prochain Forum1 qui démarre le 6 juin sauf erreur) ? Comment reconnaître les acquis qui ne sont pas dans des filières « officielles » ?
  • Est-ce une autre manière d’aborder le Lifelong Learning ? l’apprentissage hybride ?
  • Est-ce un nouveau modèle d’école ou de système éducatif qui bénéficie de l’appui des ICT ?
  • Ou est-ce encore autre chose ?

Merci d’orienter ma lanterne.

Comme promis lors du workshop de Münchenwiler au moment où vous avez pris la décision de laisser le Forum « parler » trilingue j’ai laissé « Google translation » œuvrer pour la langue de Goethe et celle de Shakespeare en espérant que les progrès de la traduction par ordinateur sont fulgurants. Bonne chance ! L’original était donc en français !

Ich finde es schwierig, in dieser Diskussion beginnen, also werde ich versuchen, mein Verständnis von "Lernen in Auflösung Boundaries " umformulieren:
Ist es nur eine Diskussion über den Verlust der Schulleitung auf der anderen Partners in Learning? wenn ja, was sind sie? was tun sie mehr?
• Ist es eine Schule Öffnung auf die Gesellschaft vorstellen?
• Ist es die Erkenntnis, dass die Grenzen von gestern zwischen Arbeit, Freizeit und Privatsphäre verwischen sich zusehends, und mehr als dürftig Zeit gut markierte einmal s'intersèquent und mischen? zu wessen Nutzen? was?
Ist es die Tatsache, dass es formales Lernen und andere informelle (siehe nächster Forum1 die am 6. Juni beginnt glaube ich)? Wie erkennt man die Leistungen, die nicht in Ketten "offiziell "?
Gibt es eine andere Herangehensweise an die lebenslanges Lernen? Blended Learning?
Ist das ein neues Modell der Schule oder Ausbildung, die Unterstützung der IKT hat?
Oder ist es etwas anderes?

Vielen Dank für die Führung meiner Laterne.

Wie in der Werkstatt von Münchenwiler versprochen, wenn Sie das Forum "sprechen" lassen habe ich mich entschlossen links dreisprachig "Google Übersetzung" Arbeit für die Sprache von Goethe und Shakespeare, in der Hoffnung, dass Fortschritte bei der Übersetzung Computer sind blendend. Viel Glück! Das Original war so Französisch!

 

I find it difficult to start in this discussion, so I'll try to rephrase my understanding of "Learning in Dissolving Boundaries":
• Is it just a discussion on the loss of school leadership on the other partners in learning? if so what are they?
what do they do more?
• Is it to imagine a school opening on society?
• Is it the realization that the boundaries of yesteryear between work, leisure and privacy are becoming increasingly blurred, and more tenuous as time well marked once s'intersèquent and mix?
to whose benefit? what?
• Is it the fact that there are formal learning and other more informal (see the next Forum1 which starts on June 6th I believe)? How to recognize the achievements that are not in chains "official"?
• Is there another approach to the Lifelong Learning? blended learning?
• Is this a new model of school or education system that has the support of ICT?
• Or is it something else?

Thank you for guiding my lantern.

As promised at the workshop of Münchenwiler when you decided to leave the Forum "talk" I left trilingual "Google translation" work for the language of Goethe and of Shakespeare in the hope that progress by the translation computer are dazzling. Good luck! The original was so French!

 

Franco Furger
356 days ago

Alan - there are a lot of interesting thoughts in your comments, too may in fact for a single individual to offer reply in an meainingful way. So let try to get at the heart of just a few issues.

You offer good arguments for overcoming all kinds of traditional boundaries. Now, I can think of two major historical phases in which these boundaries didn't exist or existed only partially. During the Middle Ages up until the 19th century (give or take), the distinction between a private and a work space often didn't exist: artisans for example worked on the street level and lived on the first floor. Artisans didn't need to go to work, they already were there.

Now, turn the wheel of time way back to pre-urban societies, i.e. to hunter and gatherers. In those times, not only there was no separation between home and work, there was no public space to begin with! So arguably, hunter and gatherers societies provide an illustration of what it means to remove boudaries. And yet, no one, I would think, would argue that this is a desirable state of affairs. But why not, precisely?

 

Alan McCluskey
356 days ago

Hi Franco.

The boundary between school and the rest of the world, when it comes to learning, may be more complex. Here are a couple of ideas.

1. No other place than schools (and all the related structures like universities, colleges, evening classes, etc) is entirely dedicated to learning. Now there are many places where people have to learn a lot: a dance troupe, for example, or a research laboratory, or an avant-garde hairdressers. But these places are not set aside as places of learning. Learning is one of the things people do there. They might not even call it learning.

2. Another aspect that sets schools apart from the rest of the world, when it comes to learning, is the attitude to complexity. The world is, by nature, complex. But schools keep complexity out. Material used to learn in schools has been deliberately simplified.

On the other hand there are aspects of schooling that tend to break down these barriers:

1. Homework, for example, has learners doing learning work outside school.

2. Study visits etc take learning outside the school perimeter and into the complex world.

3. The Internet, if schools allow full access to the Internet which many don't, brings the complexity of the world into the classroom.

Alan.

Franco Furger
344 days ago

Hi Alan

Sorry for this late reply, I guess I didn't get a notification about it.

About boundaries: what I was trying to get from you the reasoning for your interest in breaking down institutional barriers. You probably have already written at length about this. In any case, you seem to be making both a normative ("breaking down barriers is a good thing") and an empirical point ("looks like the barriers are coming down everywhere"). 

I don't have much to add on the empirical point. I have never seen data on this, but there is no doubt that we all learn in different contexts and in very different ways and for very different purposes, not only in school. Assuming that institutional boundaries are indeed becoming more fluid, why is this important? What are the implications?

The normative point interests me more. At times it sounds as if you are considering more fluid boundaries as an opportunity to propose some kind of alternative model to traditional schooling. In this regard you note that traditional forms of schooling do a poor job of dealing with complexity. That's certainly an important point, but institutional walls are no impediment to finding better ways of teaching about complexity. Don't get me wrong, I have no particular stakes in traditional "frontal teaching" as it appropriately is called in German. But then what exactly makes this phenomenon so important from your point of view? 

Alan McCluskey
344 days ago

Thanks for your very perceptive comments, Franco.

I am unsure how to respond. Yes, I am convinced that current (and possibly all) institutional structures are a barrier to learning, where, by "learning" I mean developing new ways of doing things and exploring new perspectives on things. It is a conviction (and a way of life) rather than a "norm". "Institutions" in the sense of  structures that are devised to help organize our lives, are essential in a complex world but we mustn't lose sight of the fact that they are not written in stone and are also necessarily barriers to change and learning. Institutions can be so ingrained that we take them for granted. We find it very difficult to look beyond their everyday activities to question what they fundamentally do and challenge their appropriateness. See my article about the hidden curriculum of schools.

In what do I see signs that society at large, if not schools in particular, is tending to a more flexible, more open, less top-down approach to exchange and learning? Take what we call personal learning environments (PLEs). Seen from the perspective of learning institutions, they are platforms that enable continued control over learning while allowing learners greater apparent customization of their learning experience. This is a power-driven, institution-centred way of seeing them that tends to impoverish the learning experience. How many promising doors do schools shut when they say no to Facebook, to SMS, to Twitter, to smartphone, etc? PLEs are at their most interesting when they are seen not as platforms for control but as the multiple combinations people make of both the many tools and apps freely available and tailor-made ways of working that are open and best suit their needs at any given moment. These combinations are constantly changing and differ from person to person. And this is how people naturally use them, albeit not necessarily explicitly so. This is where we are going. Failure of schooling institutions to understand the implications of this shift may well lead to declining influence, dwindling budgets and finally irrelevance.

 

Alan McCluskey
344 days ago

Teaching and complexity: beyond the words

Talking about education and learning is a constant battle with words to try to avoid being led astray by them. Take what you say, Franco, for example: "... institutional walls are no impediment to finding better ways of teaching about complexity." The word teaching conjures up familiar images of a classroom, of someone who knows more and better and whose role is to judge and assess as much as to teach, ... so we can hardly talk about teaching without being influenced if not misled by those images and memories. But what if teachers don't know better? If you've ever taken part in parent-teacher meetings you'll know that there are some things that many teachers do not know how to do. If you look at the wider palette of the formal and informal ways of learning available in society, the choice proposed in school is extremely limited. What if the teacher-centered, hierarchical attitude to learning is no longer appropriate? The word "teaching" for me connotes, amongst other things, the simplification of the material to be learnt in a way that is characteristic of all schooling (as epitomized by text books). How can that be compatible with understanding complexity? My hypothesis is that what you call "institutional walls" of school, which I understand to mean the physical, mental and procedural constraints put on the learning and other activities carried out there, are, in their current form incompatible with coming to terms with complexity. School as a structure itself has great difficulties facing up to the complexity of the world around it (even its self-made complexity). How can it hope to "teach" others to handle complexity?

Bernard Vuilleumier
344 days ago

Bonjour Alan,

Il serait souhaitable que l'on puisse apprendre à maîtriser la complexité, que ce soit à l'école ou ailleurs. Je pense que personne ne conteste cette revendication. Mais pourrais-tu nous donner quelques exemples typiques de situations ou de phénomènes complexes et de «gestion» ou «maîtrise» réussie de la complexité ?

  • A tes yeux, la science parvient-elle à étudier et à gérer la complexité ?
  • Quels sont pour toi les phénomènes complexes irréductibles ?
  • Sont-il à tout jamais inaccessibles par la méthode analytique ?

Alan McCluskey
343 days ago

Merci pour ces questions Bernard.

Dans un article écrit en 1998 intitulé "Complexity and the Networked Society" je parle des idées d'Ilya Prigogine, Prix Nobel, au sujet de la complexité. Cet article répond en partie à tes questions concernant la science. Il faut comprendre que la science et les mathématiques parlent de complexité non pas dans le sens commun des choses, c'est à dire, ce qui est compliqué, mais des choses dont le niveau de complexité est tel qu'émerge de cette complexité des phénomènes nouveaux que l'analyse des parties constituantes de cette situation ne pouvaient pas laisser prévoir.

Voici plusieurs citations de Prigogine (traduites en français) de cet article:

"Ce n'est plus des situations stables ou permanentes qui nous intéressent, mais plutôt des évolutions, des crises et des instabilités." Prigogine explique que le changement dans la complexité n'est ni linéaire ni évolutif, mais se fait par des ruptures qui émergent de manière inattendue de la complexité elle-même. Les dimensions des changements qui ont lieu ne sont pas proportionnels aux changements des conditions de départ. C'est le fameux effet de papillon!

"Nous voyons actuellement l'émergence d'une science qui n'est plus limitée par des situations simplifiées ou idéalisées mais qui plutôt confronte la complexité du monde et permet à la créativité humaine de fleurir comme l'expression singulière d'un trait commun et fondamental à tous les niveaux de la Nature." C'est pourquoi je dis que l'école, pour faire face à la complexité doit également ne plus se limiter à des contextes simplifiés et idéalisés (la logique du livre scolaire et la croyance que un élève ne peut apprendre à partir d'une situation volontairement simplifiée), mais doit confronter la complexité du monde, dans sa complexité, et de manière créative.

Prigogine et Stengers parlent d'une nouvelle approche possible: "... le dialogue expérimental basé sur deux éléments essentiels à la relation entre l'homme et la nature: compréhension et modification." Et ils rajoutent: "L'expérimentation requiert une interaction entre théorie et pratique qui implique une véritable stratégie." L'école reste largement ancrée dans le formel et le théorique. Pour aborder une expérimentation elle va devoir accorder plus de place à la pratique et à l'expérience de chacun en tant que champs riche de connaissances. Elle va également devoir faire une place aux changements, non seulement comme sujet d'études mais également comme pratique en son sein.

McCluskey A. (1998), Complexity and the Networked Society, Connected Magazine, http://www.connected.org/is/prigogine.html 

Prigogine I, Stengers I (1986) La nouvelle alliance, Folio essais, Paris

Prigogine I. (1996) La fin des certitudes: Temps, chaos et les lois de la nature, Editions Odile Jacob, Paris. 

Alan McCluskey
343 days ago

And here is the English translation (and one or two extra ideas) for those who find understanding French difficult.

Thanks for these questions, Bernard.

In an article written in 1998 called "Complexity and the Networked Society" I spoke of the ideas of Ilya Prigogine, Nobel Prize winner, about complexity. To some extent that article answered Bernard's questions about science. It is important to understand that the complexity Prigogine talks about is not that of everyday life where we use the word to mean that which is complicated. Rather it refers to those situations in which the level of complexity is such that completely new and unexpected phenomena emerge from it that no prior analysis of the constituent parts could have predicted. This fact explains the failure of analysis as a tool to understand complexity.

Here are a couple of quotes from Prigogine from that article.

"It is no longer stable situations or permanency that interest us, but rather evolutions, crises and instabilities." Prigogine explains that change in complexity is neither linear nor evolutive, instead it emerges unexpectedly in the form of ruptures due to complexity itself. The dimensions of the resulting changes are not necessarily proportional to changes in the initial conditions. This is the well known but possibly not so well understood butterfly effect.

"We are witnessing the emergence of a science that is no longer limited to simplified, idealised situations but rather one which confronts the complexity of the world and allows human creativity to flourish as a singular expression of a fundamental trait common to all levels of Nature." It is for this reason that school, if it is to be able to embrace complexity, needs to go beyond simplified, idealised contexts (as epitomised by text books and the belief that pupils can only learn from situations that are deliberately simplified) and creatively confront the world in all its complexity.

Prigogine and Stengers evoke a possible new approach: "... the experimental dialogue is based on the two essential elements of the relationship between man and nature: understanding and modification." And they add: "Experimentation demands an interaction between theory and practice that implies a veritable strategy." The approach of school remains largely formal and theoretical. To come to terms with experimentation, school is going to have to grant more place to practice and individual experience as a rich source of knowledge alongside the formal knowledge of which it has been the champion. School will also need to grant more room to change, not just as a subject to study, but all it is its own right, with the organisation and its ways of doing things.

McCluskey A. (1998), Complexity and the Networked Society, Connected Magazine, http://www.connected.org/is/prigogine.html 

Prigogine I, Stengers I (1986) La nouvelle alliance, Folio essais, Paris

Prigogine I. (1996) La fin des certitudes: Temps, chaos et les lois de la nature, Editions Odile Jacob, Paris. 

Bernard Vuilleumier
343 days ago

Merci Alan pour ces précisions, mais je ne suis pas sûr d'avoir bien compris. Lorsque que tu dis

School as a structure itself has great difficulties facing up to the complexity of the world around it (even its self-made complexity). How can it hope to "teach" others to handle complexity ?

De quelle complexité s'agit-il ? Celle des scientifiques ou celle du sens commun ? Comme tu te réfères à Prigogine, j'imagine qu'il s'agit plutôt de celle des scientifiques. Mais alors une question se pose : comment l'étudient-ils ?

Prigogine, qui s'est beaucoup intéressé à l'auto-organisation, a construit un modèle permettant de simuler l'émergence de comportements «complexes» lors de réactions chimiques. Ce modèle (connu sous le nom de Brusselator) fait apparaître des cycles : lorsqu'on mélange deux produits, les réactions chimiques engendrées font varier leur concentration de manière cyclique. Le point remarquable de ce modèle, c'est que ce cycle est indépendant des concentrations initiales : il y a émergence d'un cycle limite. Si on reporte la concentration d'un produit en fonction de celle de l'autre, on obtient quelque chose comme ceci :

image

Or ce modèle est très simple aux yeux des scientifiques. Il s'élabore et s'étudie selon les canons de l'approche analytique (ceux qui seraient intéressés par une usage pédagogique de ce modèle peuvent voir un exemple de question Moodle que je pose à des gymnasiens).

Plus récemment, Stephen Wolfram, dans son ouvrage A New Kind of Science, a étudié la complexité. La thèse centrale de cet ouvrage est la suivante : toute la richesse et la complexité du monde physique émergent de règles sous-jacentes très simples.

Que penses-tu de cette approche qui contraste avec plusieurs de tes affirmations ?

S'il s'agit de l'autre complexité, celle du sens commun, alors j'aimerais bien avoir quelques exemples d'«apprentissage», de «gestion» et de «maîtrise» de cette complexité.

Quand on ne voit pas le fond, ce n'est pas toujours que les eaux sont profondes. Elles peuvent être troubles !

 

 

 

Alan McCluskey
329 days ago

A summary of this (unfinished) discussion can be found here.

Alan McCluskey
329 days ago

Letter from an amateur of change to a teacher

Bernard.

Your concern as a teacher when confronted with complexity is how can you teach it. And you have clearly demonstrated not only that it can be done but that you have already done so. I imagine you must be satisfied that you have answered the challenge I put out.

My concern as an amateur (in the sense of one who is passionate about) learning, organisations and change, is how to take into account the implications of complexity theory as a metaphor when it comes to handling change and learning in educational institutions. The challenge is not how do you teach complexity as a subject, but rather, how do people and institutions handle the implications of complexity in their lives, in their learning and in the way they do things?

You point out that mathematically, complexity can be expressed as a limited number of curves. What you fail to point out is that complex phenomena, however few mathematical equations are required as metaphors to describe them, remain inherently unpredictable. And, as a result, understanding change, organising complex institutions and managing our own learning cannot be done solely using the analytical and mechanistic approach that has served us so well up to now.

Alan.